All Green Podcast: Ep 13- Interview with Francesco Caruso; Director of Retail Operations at Stok'd

TRANSCRIPT

Michael:
All right. All right. All right. Thank you so much for coming to the All Green Podcast with Michael Ghazal at Eco Four Twenty. I'm super excited because I have a good friend in today. Francesco Caruso, I'm so pumped to have you. Thank you so much for coming today. Yeah,

Francesco:
Thanks for having me, buddy.

Michael:
Now I've actually known Francesco for quite a number of years, and we'll get into how we met and everything. But before we talk about the whole episode, we just kind of get into original articles and get their opinions. I think Francesco's done the retail game for a long time, and this is a random topic about retail. So this is just from TheBeet.com. It's just talking about how Starbucks is testing a greener menu, and they're doing now plant-based items. So basically it's a greener store initiative where they're trying to have over 2000 stores across Canada and the US just trying to have dairy alternatives in other options and just plant-based food in general. So what do you think about this in general? What, have you ever tried plant-based food? Is that something that appeals to you or, or the retail stores? What do you think?

Francesco:
No, I haven't tried plant-based food. I probably don't plan to.

Michael:
"Don't plan to,". *Laughs* I like that.

Francesco:
Right. but you know, it's really cool to see companies kind of jumping on initiatives that are definitely current and that are needed. You know, it definitely serves a niche. And that stores can be the leaders in, you know, kind of establishing that for themselves. And hat's off to you. But it's probably another reason why I won't shop at Starbucks. 

Michael:
Right but, you know, even if there's only 10% of the people who might want it, it's cool that they can adapt this model.

Francesco: Yep.

Michael:
You know, and I think even with Stok'd, you know, if some people want a more greener store, not plant-based maybe, but it could be, "Oh, we want, instead of a receipt, we want a digital receipt or something." Like, it's cool that retail stores can just listen to customer feedback and do it. This example is just, "Oh, people want it a like a dairy free option." And it's like, it's cool. Do just even in your day to day life, do people give suggestions on how to improve this store? Or they think this could be a greener way? Or, what's your feedback on that?

Francesco:
I guess yes and no. There, there are definitely people that recognize what we do. So in terms of greener initiatives, recycling's a huge one. We, have a recycling program at Stok'd, so we take all the plastic and we send it off to a company, and we're working towards making a few notable items through those recycled jars that we've collected over.

Michael:
Oh, that's really cool.

Francesco:
Yeah. So it's really cool. And then what's really, really cool is all the wood you see in our stores are actually repurposed barns that were going to be destroyed and disposed of.

Michael:
That's amazing.

Francesco: Instead of getting rid of all that wood, we were actually able to-

Michael:
Upcycling wood and as such

Francesco:
A green way, and really reuse it throughout the entire layout of all our stores. I would say it's pretty cool.

Michael:
This was Lisa's husband, if I may say, who helped build the stores and, and do the whole structure. Is that how you guys had the connections to get these barns? Or how did you meet? How did you get that? That's amazing

Francesco:
Yeah, I think through Lisa, her husband and one of the contractors were able to source all of that, and then it just became a standard. So I think they are working on actually getting the pictures of the barns that were used for all the wood. So they'll go in each store, which is pretty cool. That's beautiful. It's a matter of just,

Michael:
You know, the aesthetics of Stok'd is beautiful. Just when you walk in it literally appeals to a high quality outdoor adventure person. At least I I love that you literally put a canoe. Like to me when I go into these stores, there's a whole canoe there. Like that's a rare thing 'cause you know, the height of a canoe, you know how heavy those things are- to see it there really like appeals to me. I like that as well.

Francesco:
Those are all repurposed

Michael:
And it's all repurposed wood and very, very cool.

Francesco:
Yeah. So even the canoes so even the canoes are retired repurposed canoes.

Michael:
That would've been just thrown out or just trash.

Francesco:
They're standardized like 75 to a hundred years old.

Michael:
It's beautiful. Yeah. I do love that. And, whether it's a big corporation or small businesses, I think it's like the businesses itself that have to take those initiatives, even if it's 10% of the way to say "Let's be greener in this way." I think that's a great example of how Stok'd is becoming greener. And, it's when you have a thousand stores now in an industry in Ontario, you need to stand out in cool ways like that. So doing it in a eco-friendly way or just doing it in a unique way by putting a huge canoe there. I love it. Yeah. I'm all about that.

Francesco:
Thanks.

Michael:
Just going into topic number two, I'm excited because it's a story that I get to tell Francesco and everybody of how we met. And truthfully, Francesco doesn't even know how we originally met.

Michael:
Like, you know, we met right at this Grow Up, but you don't know that it was planned. I planned to meet you kind of, and okay, it was at the show, but it is just also an example. So what happened is, this was years ago, right? So this was at the Grow Up Conference in 2019, and I was just there. I went by myself truthfully, like I didn't have friends to go, Andrea wasn't working with me at the time, and I was like, "I don't know who to meet. I don't know how to say hello to people." And it was at like a, a person was speaking and you guys had like four or five people with your nice Choom shirts. And so, and I, I know you were the store manager at the time, and I was like, "I'm gonna sit beside those people.

Michael:
I don't know them." And like, I just purposely, you know, sat beside them. Cause I was like, in a sea of maybe 50-60 people, you were the only branded company. You were the only group of people there to be like, like seen as one, You know? And obviously there were booths and everything, but even when you go to the lot of the booths, and, and I love it, don't get me wrong, but a lot of people were wearing suits and professional clothes, but I love that you guys were wearing just branded, nice. It was, a beautiful blue, that's what I'll call it. Like beautiful blue Choom. And so I purposely stood beside there and I was like, you know, using my filter and making sure that one of your friends could notice. And even though we were maybe three or four seats down, he was like, "Oh, what is that?"

Michael:
You know? And we got to talking from that alone. So it was like manufactured in that way, but I was just like, and then from that point, you know, you had that awesome consumption lounge in the back that you guys were managing and organizing, and then I got to meet you. They introduced me and then you let me go to your store and you're like, "Here's like a cool discount. Just try out a product." And I was like, "Let me try this." The most expensive thing. It was the Quest brand.

Francesco:
Yeah.

Michael:
But I do remember that. And it was just really cool 'cause (A) of how welcoming you were and (B) how cool it was to be like, "I'm nervous, I can't meet anybody." It's so scary to go by yourself to these events. And truthfully, at Eco Four Twenty, we're such a small business.

Michael:
Like we're just a handful of people. So to go and see, you know, five or six people and just be welcomed and very nice and you know, we talked for an hour, like me and your friends there and the, the staff members were just, it was such a cool experience. It's exactly what I would love Grow Up to be for everybody, you know? And so thank you for that. I know you didn't know that part, but I like literally manufactured it. I was just like so nervous there being like, and I think I stood for even five minutes to be like, "Where am I gonna talk to people?" You know? It's when you see a sea of a thousand people, it's really nerve wracking to like go and do that. And so it's really cool that you were so welcoming to be like, "Come to see the store."

Francesco:
Yeah.

Michael:
You know, and to be able to, I think like I never saw any in Niagara Falls that day yet or anything, but I wanted to, you know, and I was excited to do that and to get like a personal tour from you is very cool, Francesco. So

Francesco:
I appreciate that. That's awesome dude. That's very well executed and manifested, I'd have to say for sure. 'Cause look, three years later.

Michael:
We're still friends and I get to see you at all these awesome events. And so if that story teaches anyone anything, it's, even if you're nervous, like go do those events. Like try to put yourself out there and put yourself in positions where you get to meet awesome people. And I learn from you every day about this kind of stuff, even on social media. I get to learn all of this. And so it only happened because of that event going to it.

Francesco: Right on, man.

Michael:
I know it's coming up soon as well, so if anybody wants to go to the Grow Up conference, they should go for that.

Francesco:
That'll be a good show this year for sure.

Michael:
Yeah, so now we're gonna go into a bit of the questions and, but before we do, like, I would love it if you can we have a lot of small business listeners. We have a lot of people from Canada all across. And, you know, they might not know who Francesco Caruso is. So tell us a bit about yourself and what got you into this industry. What brings you passion? Love to give you a little, couple minute intro.

Francesco:
Wow. Thank you. Thank you. That's a funny question. That's a hard question. I feel like I'm in an interview when you ask that. Right. 

Michael:
But it will be judged outta 10. No *laughs*

Francesco:
I definitely say I am somebody that is a humbled student of the industry, an advocate for the plant and just somebody that wants to see everybody around, you know, myself succeed at the end of the day. Right? Like, we've gone through a lot, each and every single one of us. Regardless if you come from the recreational scene or not, but if you can show that appreciation and, you know, want to learn you should be accepted. The torch should be passed. But yeah, I'm just somebody that's trying to, just trying to sell a plant, right. That's the name of the game. Like I always say, "Same number, different corners." So that really says a lot about, about who I am, I think.

Michael:
You've been doing it for many years, you know.

Francesco:
Long time. Long time. I think 15 years now, all said and done. So it's it's been a long time selling.

Michael:
So if anybody knows about how the industry's changed about how everything's grown, I think you're definitely an expert on it. And, it's cool. It's that even though you've done it for so many years, you still interact and work with people who've done it for two years and, and in the same way. Like, you can teach them, but it's not like a, "I'm better than you kind of thing." You know, it's like an opening, Let's teach each other and let's work together," kind of positiveness.

Francesco:
Yeah, you know, I look at it like there were teachers before us passing the torch and then legalization started and everyone stopped passing the torch. It was kind of, you know, I had to head scratch and just like, why isn't anyone teaching the next generation that wants to learn? Why are we just scrutinizing them? Right? And kind of saying, you don't know. It's okay, but our struggle got us here. That's what we build this for. So like, let's standardize what the history is of how we got here and the fight and hopefully they come out of it being thankful and appreciative and carry that torch.

Michael:
Right.

Francesco:
That's all we can hope for. We shouldn't expect anything. Right. Just because we did it all already or you know, some of us did it. I wouldn't say "We," but you know, just again, I think we owe it to the people that were here before us that really wanted to see this come a lot sooner, that's the name of the game.

Michael:
And, and I think it's always an ongoing process, you know, as well. And I know in Alberta their retail stores are able to take down the front coverings. You know, that's an ongoing thing. That's huge. Is it going to happen in Ontario? Will it follow suit? Like there's always these little battles, I guess. And just like kind of questions that I guess cuz there's never been federally decided for all of these rules for everything. But it's just interesting that like, it's always changing.

Francesco: Yeah.

Michael:
You know, and it's crazy how small business have to adapt to every rules. Even if you're in the food industry, if you're in the like growing industry, if you're in retail, there's always these small rules that change, not on a daily basis, but it seems like in our industry, it's been a daily basis.

Michael:
Doesn't it seem like that? So I think it's interesting that you guys have done very well dealing with these changes every time the government makes a different rule. Like, "Will they allow this?", "Will they allow that?" It's interesting to see how that happens. So I guess in such an industry like that, what does it take to do well and, and, and to thrive? We've only done this for about four or five years now. What do you think it takes for a small business or a retail store to thrive?

Francesco:
Sacrifice, major sacrifice. You have to understand that you gotta either be in it for the long game or not, right? There's sacrifice that comes to building something, and I think a lot of us forget that especially nowadays because of how quick things change. Our mindset changes just as quick. But at the end of the day, if we can remember our roots and why we're doing this, I think it's a good way to keep yourself focused. But yeah, just sacrifice. And that's, you know, some people say that's not true. This is not, But at the end of the day, it's the ones that do put in that sacrifice, I feel that really come out stronger.

Michael:
And a lot of people are in it for the quick dollar or the quick in and out. I'm surprised when I see some companies are, you know, they only lasted 18 months and then close.We just started our marketing plan in that time. You know, it's always a long term plan with retail stores and as you see, like Rome wasn't built in a day. And it's interesting, the industry's not built in a day. Stores aren't built. Brands aren't built. So being able to make that sacrifice is important. And that is time. That's energy. Yeah. It's everything. Opportunity costs of other things too. 

Francesco:
Obviously some things kind make up for it in the long run as you go along. But initially, especially if you wanted to get into something new like this yeah, it's all about just understanding that you have to put the time in.

Michael:
And I feel like for me, even it's like half the time is just being there. You know,  if you're physically there, then a lot of times you're mentally there, you're forcing yourself to do it. So, you know, sometimes it's "I'm not feeling like being in the store today", but just forcing yourself to do that. And not every day everybody's gonna wanna do that. They're not always gonna have that goal and passion, but just being there is half of the battle. And so, at least for me, I know sacrifice is important. 'Cause 365 days, you're not gonna be happy. "Let's go, go go." everyday. Especially in a retail business where you guys are open Saturday and Sunday, it is every day. There's not one day off. You guys don't get a day off in that sense

Francesco:
To a degree. You know, it really takes some like personal boundary setting as well too, to know when to take time. And I think that's what a lot of us kind of forget as well. And like, you can probably even test it this like, you're working seven days a week. It doesn't stop for you. Right. So, and you understand that it's just how it is, but there is a certain point where you get to be like, "Okay, I need this Sunday off. Like I can answer this one email tomorrow." We kind of get it in a sense, addicted to our work and you know, this, this, I wouldn't say this generation, but the new mindset is "I don't want to, I want my time when I want my time," but as long as you can remember that you can only go for so long and sometimes you just need a one day break at certain points, you can plan that out and make sure that you are still healthy. And when the time comes around for you to take a longer one, it will, It's just, and again, it's the patience.

Michael:
That's a good point. I'm all about like, you know, I love camping, so I go from the afternoon till the next morning, you know? And even if it's just like 12 hours of camping, you know, in front of a camp, fire, relaxing, you know, enjoying I think that is alone that, and then you get those kind of week trips and I know for me, I'm even gonna go to the Lift Vancouver, you know, so I'm gonna make that week trip of it, you know, and even just looking forward to that alone is like, it helps with the nitty and gritty of the day to day roughness.

Francesco:
Yeah, Hundred percent.

Michael:
And yeah, That's great advice. That's really great advice for people. I think something that's super interesting that I know about Francesco is he's had the opportunity to work for like a larger corporation, you know, which was Choom  and then now a small independent family business which is Stok'd in and Scarborough. And so I guess like my, one of my questions is what are the differences between the two? You get that such an in depth experience with both, and honestly, being a manager at both places is very, amazing.

Francesco:
Yeah. I mean there's so many differences and similarities as well, but the differences, I think it's the channel of how many times something has to go through to either get approved or denied is a big one where, you know, working for a small business, especially if you have a team and you're kind of at the top of the team with some others, that you get to make the immediate decision and what's best for the business and learn from it either positively or negatively where it doesn't impact, you know, "shareholders" or an entire corporation. 

Michael:
But that's a great point. Just the red tape.

Francesco:
Red tape. Yeah. And it's the mentality too, like, don't get me wrong. Like, I appreciate everything I learned from Choom, it's definitely shaped me into the leader I am today with certain guidance. But ultimately it also showed me what I didn't want to be and who I didn't want to be. And the biggest difference I would say, and I've said this before too, is flawless execution does not exist. And I think in the corporate culture, it's instilled by fear for that to be the mentality where, you know, that's a tactic to take out the weak. But especially in this particular industry, because we're so mind driven and so different and so unique, I think that mindset just doesn't work, right? So to be able to apply a different type of leadership, an inclusive leadership where don't get me wrong, like, you can still have that flawless execution mentality and still be a compassionate person, but at the end of the day, that still outweighs what people generally think of you as a leader. When they can't see you do the same thing they do, it's hard for people to follow you. 

Michael:
That's great advice. Let me know what you think of it. I just say sometimes 80% and done is the best way to go because you need, especially as a small business to act fast. You know, if you're making an order, sometimes that inventory's not there in a week. So you have to make that decision. "Is this best for our store today?" is this best for, you know, this sale? A lot of times it's time limited, when Christmas time comes around, you only have that week or so. Versus February it's different. So it's a very short notice to make these kind of decisions and changes. And so do you like that 80% and done kind of model or what's your percentage and done that you get it going?

Francesco:
Whatever you're capable of within that. But if you're gonna do it at 80%, just make sure that 80% is done well, where you can, that that 20% doesn't become 30%-40%, so it adds on to an extra 160%. Something like that.

Michael:
That's a good point.

Francesco:
So that's my mentality is like, go hard until you can't, and then just reserve yourself to when you can pick back up. So whatever's left over doesn't translate to being more than what you just exerted at that time. So that's my only way of looking at. 

Michael:

That's fantastic. That's a great point. You're gonna change my thought process on that quote. 'Cause I swear, I say it to Andrea all the time, like 80% and done. But it's really important to think, make sure that 80% doesn't turn into

Francesco:
Another-

Michael:
60%. Yeah, like lowering it down. And sometimes for us it's just we need to get this report out by this day. You know? We need to make these changes on our website, and some of these things are very time limited. So, Absolutely. The next question I have, and I'm excited to hear about it, you know, is just about the new store with Stok'd. What are you most excited about? I know there's some great news on the horizon, but tell me exactly like what's happening right now with Stok'd?

Francesco:
So we just launched our actual first franchise

Michael:
Franchises. Yeah. Which is-

Francesco:
Which is really, really cool.

Michael:
A new store. That's so cool.

Francesco:
Yeah. So it's the third one in Scarborough, Fourth one under the belt. You know, it's a different route. It's definitely really cool to see that people are stoked about us.

Michael:
Ah, I love the plan. We're stoked about you guys.

Francesco:
I appreciate that. But yeah, it's a really nice store. It's right across from the Go Station on Bellamy and Eglinton. So high traffic, it's one of the few plazas you can pull in and out of on Eglinton East too.

Michael:
That's true.

Francesco:
It's really, really convenient. And

Michael:
It's really centrally located in Scarborough.

Francesco:
Massive parking for a standalone unit there, which is really, really cool. And it kind of goes into our game plan of just being all close together in that sense. 

Michael:
And, and you guys are really doing well in the Scarborough market. That's amazing.

Francesco:
Community man. Translate what I know as the recreational community into the retail because that's what I know, that's what I'm used to. That's what kind of, you know, invoked my passion when I walked through that first Karma Cup and saw the community.

Michael:
And all the stores look very positively clean and I haven't been to the new store, I'm excited. They, they do have the grand opening. And, and truthfully, I love that when you go into, like, I've gone into the two Scarborough Stok'd and they look exactly similar. You know, the same branding. They say the "Chill" and as you go through it is the same vibes, you know? And that's important, especially when you're a retail store 'cause just like the Gap, just like Nike, you know, when you walk into a Nike store, it's all similar, but I do love your outdoor appeal. It's beautiful all over a location. And so is the franchise like that in it looks similar?

Francesco:
So that's pretty much our layout. Everything that you see at our corporate stores, you'll see at, at pretty much our franchise locations as well. It's definitely something that we are proud of and it's something that differentiates us. So that's a piece of the package that you get, is you get that layout and that similarity because again, no matter what, we want you to feel like you're walking through the same Stok'd. And in Scarborough, we have a lot of cross-customer purchasing at both stores

Michael:
Go to both locations.

Francesco:
Especially with our loyalty program, it allows them to capture anything and being eight minutes between each other it's a quick either delivery transfer right over, or you can just head on over.

Michael:
I love the one that even from where I am in Pickering to downtown, it's very like "on the way." And I've used that as my, like "on the go" location stores. And I think if it wasn't on Kingston Road, I might not, you know, if I had to go 10 minutes North. So it's great that you have these amazing locations. Do you think the old adage is true "location, location, location", in retail is important? Or is it about building brand or what is important for like these kind of retail stores?

Francesco:
No, not with sounding too egotistic, but like, you know, Kingston, you, you know, the layout you've seen where the store is located, there's literally four parking spots in front of it. That's always taken up by the other businesses there.

Michael:
Which not to recommend it, but I park across the street.

Francesco:
The Pet Valu doesn't care. The grocery store plaza over there is pretty good. And then there is some parking on the street, but it's still a battle there. But nonetheless, we've been able to build that up as the neighborhood store. It's a powerhouse. It's doing very well. So, I mean, I heard a boss of mine told me that, it's broken down into three, like everyone thinks it's location, location, location. And no offence, no shots taken here, but, look at Choom, look at where Choom was located. Huge big box retail out the mall across from Costco. There's more parking than any store I think has in Ontario. And they sold it. Still have issues, they still had to sell, right? That one store still couldn't keep them afloat in Ontario. So it was, it's a third of the battle. Especially in this niche industry again, is like, at the beginning we only had 16 items to choose from across dried flour and pre-rolls.

Francesco:
So there's no differentiator. But now we got over 3000 products to choose from. You can differentiate your menu. It's just a lot of people don't have the knowledge or the care to, because they're getting money thrown at them because they're a big box franchise.

Michael:
It's also hard if they not experienced, if they haven't done it for years sometimes, or they just don't have a team member to talk to. I admit even when I'm picking, not these kind of items, but just like anything at a Loblaws, even looking at five different pasta options, I get overwhelmed. So I can only imagine when literally have a thousand of items to choose from and then it's just a photo, kind of like a couple description. Whereas it's not like you can call up the grower or you can't call up the past store and be like, "Hey guys, what is it?" It's hard, and I feel like it gets overwhelming, especially even the OCS. It's just one website, you don't get a hundred websites to choose from. So if somebody hacks them for whatever reason, you know, the issues can arise. And I just think it's so interesting that you don't wanna overwhelm them with choice.

Francesco:
There's a major gap in the whole sensory application of how the purchasing industry side of things gets done. It's unfortunate. But that really comes now to your product knowledge. Like if you have that passion to learn about the genetics and the history and hopefully take what these companies are giving you as the truth, and go by that. Right? So it sparks a whole other industry where all this information was suppressed at one point, there was nothing available other than like Seed Finder and a few information. 

Michael:
Wikipedia stuff, like online website,

Francesco:
Some literature. But other than that, now it's becoming more and more into the mainstream kind of things, right. Where you can figure out where those strains come from in the breeders.

Michael:
I love, love this story cuz I walked into your Stok'd store once and the manager or one of the people there, he wouldn't let me leave without smelling the terpenes. And he's like, "I gotta teach you about these." And he's like, "You gotta smell it". And I loved it. But he is like, "Don't just pick this product. You gotta know why you love the product." And I love the passion, so I was like, "Let's do it. Let's smell all these things." And it's another thing I liked about Stok'd is just that experience of like, "I don't even know what Limonene is," you know? But to be able to smell it and understand it, it's a big difference as well. And that came with his knowledge. So to be able to smell them independently, it was cool. I've never had that before. 

Francesco:
So it's a different type of sensory application. That's something also we learned from Choom and how costly it can be to have, sense jars out with the product out of a package and a thing for you to smell. Because you can't do anything with that, if you destroy it and it's a loss on the business. So it's like, okay, I get it. 

Michael:
And how often would they have to rotate it, too?

Francesco:
You'd have to rotate it quite a bit, especially cause of how-

Michael:
It'll start looking bad.

Francesco:
It doesn't even do its justice at that point, right? So how do we change what you can smell in terms of enticement and see how those impact your purchasing decisions as well too. It's not like a trick, but you might have not known you like to smell the myrcene until you smelt it, but you can't smell it anywhere because nobody's doing that.

Michael:
Nobody knows. Yeah. And it's not like you can go to a Loblaws and get the extract card.

Francesco:
No. I mean Tokyo Smoke has those like wand things, but how many people are like, you think it's more of a decoration. I'm sure half the industry doesn't know you can go in and probably pull those wicks right out and just smell it. 

Michael:
I've never smelled it from there.

Francesco:
Yeah. Right. So it's like how do we change, you know, what people are doing?

Michael:
So is that, if I can ask, is that just like, you guys get an extract of terpene?

Francesco:
It's a liquid terpene that we just put on some river rock, and the dome keeps the terpene in. And then you just lift the dome up and you smell the terpene.

Michael:
It's the essential oils that people can do in their house, for example?

Francesco:
It's an actual terpene kit. This is a real terpene kit that we ordered. It just goes with our like whole "chill-to-thrill" instead of what we were talking about. Like, are you looking for a day time or night time experience?

Michael:
I love that, can you maybe describe to people about that, like this "chill-to-thrill" method? 'Cause when you walk into a Stok'd store, it's really cool that they have this like one side, it's just sectioned off in, in a positive way of action and stuff.

Francesco:
Yeah, it's a good way to display like, different products throughout the entire store, throughout different categories. The industry's changing. A lot of genetics are interbred, a lot of stuff has been diluted, lost. So we can really consider everything a hybrid, let's say right at this point. So, to start changing the way we kind of look at products and not put ourselves in a corner of only being able to sell a few things based on "Are you looking for a day or night experience?" That "chill-to-thrill" montage allows you now to combine almost anything that we have available with that consumer. So you can combine- if you're looking for a "chill" product, like even right down to the bath salts and one of these infused rolls, like the Shatterizer, you know, double infused roll, right? You can suggest somebody that's really looking to relax that night or just turn off like, you know, you take a cup of this bath salt and consume in the bathtub and you're gonna have a good night.

Michael:
And it's good to have that kind of, I have that action. So like a pairing, right? 

Francesco:
It becomes a pairing now, and we can get past this whole morning/night thing and actually give you an experience of what you're trying to do. Like you're grabbing product to do something, you're grabbing a byproduct of it to do something. So let us figure out what you're trying to do and then within that "chill-to-thrill" give you the best products available for you to enjoy that experience.

Michael:
I think that's a really unique way to do it. And I love that and combined with the beautiful marketing in the physical stores. So it's really eye catching for new users and people who would come in to the stores. Another question I have is, what do you think about the rules and are there rules that you wish could be changed? You know what are the things that are restraining you in a retail space? You don't have to go deep into it, but just, are there things that you're like, if there's one thing I wish I could change, what would you change?

Francesco:
Well screw the rules. Kidding!

Michael:
We don't have any sponsors here. Like there's no sponsors. It's only Eco four Twenty, the best filter sponsor. But besides that, Apple will be half unhappy, they will be cutting out our sponsorship. Yeah, you could swear.

Francesco:
I think there's some major need for reform on the rules. I think it's ridiculous that we have to be closed off and not treat it like a normal business. Obviously I get it's controlled substance, youth, whatever, but at the end of the day, it's like you can walk into the LCBO as a 17 year old, not get ID'd, grab a bottle off the shelf and run out the door and they won't do a single thing and you can probably do it 25 times before they decide to reprimand. So it's like at the end of the day, I'm all for if we have to keep the stuff locked up, sure. Whatever, like compromise is obviously key, but to a certain degree, I shouldn't have to worry about frosting out my windows. It's like we can't show anything anyways.

Michael:
What are they gonna see?

Francesco:
Yeah. What are, what are they gonna see?

Michael:
And just so everybody knows, like in Ontario they have to put like from the front windows, they have to cover and people can't see inside I guess until they get ID'd, through a retailer. So it's interesting 'cause in Alberta they just took it off now recently. So hopefully it falls maybe like Ontario will see. And it just goes to show, going back again to the changing rules, you have to adapt and even that it probably costs thousands of dollars to add to a store, right? The store you get comes with clean glass, you have to then install it, it costs hundreds or thousands of dollars and then even if you have to take it off a month later or a year later. I think it's so frustrating that Tim Hortons doesn't have that in the same mall you guys are in. None of those retail stores have any of those restrictions, but Stok'd does. So that is a great rule I wish could be changed. And it's hard 'cause we're not the changes of the policy makers, I feel like I'm just kind of looking up to them like, "You guys gonna change it yet or.."

Francesco:
Yeah, just wait and here pace

Michael:
There are great people and other like organizations making those efforts. So I really applaud them.

Francesco:
There's a lot of to do that. Collectives that have just kind of emerged that are trying to be voices

Michael:
It's cool that now there's even charities around it. Like the Last Prisoner Project, there's a lot of them out there. I can't name off the top of my head, but just the fact that there's whole charities and organizations, just like the Red Cross. There's organizations just towards helping in this industry, which is so awesome to be recognized. 

Francesco:
Yeah, a hundred percent.

Michael:
Now what do you think makes a a great retail store member? I think as a manager you get to see and interact with so many different people. What do you think makes like a great budtender or a retail store employee?

Francesco:
The willingness to learn and understand that you're at a job and I get that people, they take their job very seriously, right? But at the end of the day, just remember that you don't live to work, you work to live. But it's really people that make good bartenders that are people that are willing to learn, that can buy into the game plan and understand that what we're trying to do is something good for everybody. And sometimes along the way we're gonna make mistakes. But if we can rectify that in a reasonable manner and make sure that everyone's whole and progress along the way, but someone that's willing to buy into the passion, even if you're a new person. It's the passion for the product that really makes you a great budtender. Because at the end of the day, I want you to experience what I experienced when I was 14 to 24 selling product. 

Michael:
You wanna be stoked about it, you know? 

Francesco:
You want to be able to experience what I got to experience, but safely, like you don't have to go meet in a sketchy place or "Who is this?" You actually get to be a product seller, safely protected. So to try and invoke that passion and if you can kind of sprinkle that off to an individual, it really sets 'em a blaze to be a great budtender.

Michael:
And honestly, not to toot your own horn, but every time I go into Stok'd, all the employees are always stoked. They're actually passionate about it. It's something I've loved and when I see you guys at events, all the employees love being there. It's definitely an event for everybody. I just love the idea that you guys have like the corn hole games outside and you guys had a like- I got my haircut outside.

Francesco:
Yeah, yeah. You used to buy your product at the barbershop back in the nineties, Right. That was the spot. So it was like, "How do we kind of bring some of that, that culture back?" And, you know, Danny's a really good advocate for us Chopped & Faded on Kingston Road. So if you're in Scarborough and you're looking for a good haircut, Danny's your man. Very cool. 

Michael:
Unique events to get the community together and like other local businesses. I think that's really cool that you're able to do that. I went bald but I'm still waiting for a haircut. I think another thing that's interesting to kind of talk about is just the demographics of a customer base. You know, like a lot of people say, "Oh, I'm not gonna go into a retail store. You want to catch me there." You know, but a lot of times when I go like, people don't realize, there's 50 year old aunts, you know, grandmothers who are 70, like people who are coming in for their first time in experience, what are some of the demographics you kind of see, do you see that experience coming into stores?

Francesco:
You see all walks of life. And again, it just reminds me of the first time walking into Vapor Central and seeing all walks of life. I turned 18, it's the weekend. We're like, "Okay, I was the last one to turn 18. We're all going to Vapor Central." You know what I mean? 

Michael:
That's a birthday party.

Francesco:
So you walk in, first thing you see is some guy in a really nice suit walking out with a briefcase and a plastic bag full of paraphernalia. Second thing you walk into and see is this old couple and it's their anniversary and it's this guy just rolling this fat dooby for him and his wife. I'm like, "Yo, this is awesome." This industry is all walks of life. It's people from all ages, from all different types of living from everywhere, right? You do see that here now that it's becoming more destigmatized and even these older people, I like to think of it like this. They were always scared to learn because it was illegal. So that illegal, you know, without fear there is no peace.  So now that it's not illegal, they feel comfortable enough to initiate walking into a retail store.

Michael:
Right credit card in hand. They're ready to do it, you know?

Francesco:
And then right down to the legacy guy that says, "Why would I walk in there?" It's like, "well go talk to one of my dudes, go talk to one of my girls, go talk to one of my budtenders", like they will change your mind about why you should come here instead. If you don't want to, it's cool. You can get the product anywhere. Retail stores on the street, all these illegal retailers now, whatever. 

Michael:
They're not gonna stop.

Francesco:
The government's not gonna stop getting the product into people's hands, but if you can appreciate that there are some people trying to do it right, or how they think is right, then why not support?

Michael:
And I think that's why you need these kind of stores is to help the people, like I always say, I don't think my eighty year old grandmother's ever gonna go to a friend who's just, "Just go to this great street and you got an address." Like, she's not gonna go to a friend of a friend. They're gonna wanna go into a store just like on their way. I love stores that are responsibility of it. Like Stok'd is beside Tim Hortons, you know, one of the most Canadian things in the world. It's just like on the way to be able to do that kind of thing is changing the game. I love seeing it when stores are in the same mall. It's just, it's a bookstore. Yep. It's a bookstore.

Michael:
It's just you're selling a product for $5, you know, selling a product. It doesn't matter what it is. And to get these people to come in and have that good experience rather than, "Oh, I don't know if I should call this random person or a friend of a friend," is life changing for people too. And especially when it's a lot of times about health or a lot of these cool products take away pain, just in general, when you see a lot of like the pain relief creams and stuff you put on, it's like they would never go to those other locations. But I've myself got my dad to do it, grandmother's, aunts to do it just on their own. And it's only because of these kind of stores that pushed it for me.

Michael:
I actually had to get my dad to come in and said, "Don't talk to me, talk to this person." I'll never convince my dad. But a professional will. A person in a uniform is gonna be able to do it a lot better in a great way. So I think it's great to just talk about that. Demographics are everywhere. And this isn't a question just about like stores, this is just of advice, you know, like if you could go back time to like 18, like what would you tell yourself? Like you had like a minute conversation with your 18 year old self.

Francesco:
Chill up, chill the frick out,

Michael:
Relax. Yeah,

Francesco:
Just relax, man. Like, it's gonna come. I would also tell him just, just be humble. It took me a while to learn how to be humble. You know? It was, that's one of the real reasons why I'm so like forever grateful to this industry and to this plant and to everything. It's just the lessons it was able to teach me internally. I wish I would've known at 18 because I could have been a lot. Oh, everyone says they could have been a lot farther, but yeah. Just chill out and it'll come.

Michael:
I'm gonna take that advice too, you know, even as 31 year old Michael, I'm always stressed out about a lot of things in life. Then you realize we're on a planet. Like, have you ever seen that meme that's like zooming out a lot? You're like, "Man, I'm just like floating stars and stuff." And then you realize like, "Oh, I'm worrying about this day to day problem." But in the grand scheme of things, if you chill out and a lot of times, time does help a lot of these issues too. I wish I could tell that 18 year old self that, and I'm sure there's quite a few young people listening, so definitely like chill out and relax, it'll come, is a great piece of advice. And you know just to talk about Stok'd and Francesco in general, are there any things that you've had challenges over the last couple of years and like how do you look forward to overcoming them?

Francesco:
Yeah, I mean, just working in this industry alone for the last three years, you can imagine the challenges and stuff that have arose and how you've had to test your character time out. 'm one of those, those guys that like to use, you know, phrases and metaphors and all that kind of stuff and, and quotes and one quote that kind of stuck with me since 18 is, "To test a true person's character, give them power." And I think that's what keeps me motivated, I mean especially in this last like six months, like the amount of character that's been tested because of what we've had to withstand through Covid being down to one employee to each store, launching a franchise in that time as one store goes down, the OCS getting fully hacked, the wholesale.

Francesco:
I think that's what really keeps myself motivated to continue, it's the accomplishment of knowing that you can do it now, where before like, you know, your 18 year old self wouldn't be able to handle something, handle that like this, you know what I'm saying? Like the growth of how you are as an individual is a lot more rewarding when you get through these things, regardless of what happens in the middle. Like how angry you get or how sad you get or how much you give up at that time. But if you get through it and everything comes out for the better and advancements happen, then that's the whole point. 

Michael:
It makes it worth it. 

Francesco:
You just gotta weather the storm each time, but each time it happens, it gets easier too.

Michael:
Do you find that the challenge is part of the fun? It's like you're putting out those fires all day, you know?

Francesco:
I say chill out, but I'm an Italian man, I got a high blood pressure, put oil on me. High blood pressure. I popped out the womb. Right. 

Michael:
That's Toronto too, I feel like it's the hustle and bustle of big city life. 

Francesco:
I'm from Niagara , I'm from a town that's small.

Michael:
Have you seen the difference though, of like, even drivers? It's stressful driving, even on Kingston Road.

Francesco:
Well, I fit in driving here, don't get me wrong, I always thought I was like an alien on the road in Niagara, like, "Get outta way!" Here I'm like, "Okay, I can keep up with all this."

Michael:
You'll work great with Andrea.

Francesco:
Yeah. And I agree. Did I think there was someone crazier than me here? I'm like, "Holy moly, bro, I wouldn't even try that." There's some little bit of a culture shock, but I mean culture shock in the terms of like small town living versus big town living and how many different people there are where Niagara, I'm related to 75% of them. So they're all your relatives and it's the same mindset come here.

Michael:
But you probably get blamed for a lot of issues.

Francesco:
<Laugh> being the oldest. Yeah. Hundred percent. I paved the way, but we won't go there. In terms of what Toronto has to offer in terms of a small town is, I think,Toronto allows you to grow mentally. Especially small towns. You build a reputation and it sticks with you. And it's hard to shake those no matter how much you try. But then you come here and you're still able to express your past, but in a way that it's allowed you to grow.

Michael:
Kind of be a ghost in some ways.

Francesco:
Yeah. I think that's really what emulates this community too, is that no matter what you've done to a certain degree, if you can bring a tasty product to the circle, then you're most welcome.

Michael:
I know not to make fun of people, but CannTrust even got in trouble. And but they're even got a rebranding license again. So if you can even be, CannTrust and still come back through it than maybe other people could too as well.

Francesco:
A hundred percent, definitely.

Michael:
I would love to know, just in general, like what, what does a great store- I would call Stok'd, a great store. But overall, like the over philosophical thing, what does a good store mean to Francesco?

Francesco:
A good store. Wow. you, you always think that your store is a good store. When you ask that question, it's kind of the hardest one to answer. That's a good one. 

Michael:
Or even just- I think an organized clothing store. 

Francesco:
For me, it's more organization. I hate getting flustered and I'm someone that likes to get in and out. I don't like to spend a lot of time, especially shopping. If I see something, I'll grab it, I'll move on to the next one. But if I'm looking for something in particular, I want to be able to find it very quickly organized. Yeah. I kind of like Canadian Tire in that sense, where it's really well organized and you can see everything.

Michael:
They have a billion items. Yeah. 

Francesco:
They're still very organized in that sense, like in terms of what's available on the shelves. Like, Walmart's a mess now. Like, I don't know what the hell's happening there.

Michael:
And when you go to Canadian Tire, you can actually look online and it'll tell you the aisle. And when I go to the store, it's the exact, I love that Walmart.

Francesco:
I think for the smaller end, and we'll go to like the retail side of things for the recreational store, I think just a welcoming store. I like to be greeted. I like to say, "Yo, what's up?" You can change a whole person's day. "Hey, what's going on? What's, what are you saying? Like, what are you looking for? What's happening?" 

Michael:
A nice positive introduction.

Francesco:
Even though if they might answer, "Not fine." You at least know that within a sense. Like, "Okay, I gotta tone it down" So it allows that initial kind of interaction to set the tone. Whereas if you walk in and you're waiting and you're pissed off and you're still waiting and nobody acknowledges you, and there's two budtenders in there still, and this happened at a store.

Michael:
It makes it a big deal. It's a difference.

Francesco:
If you're just like, "Yo, screw this."

Michael:
And it's like, "Why would I give my business there if not to say what else are they doing?" But if they are just kind of like hanging around, I see that at Walmart all the time. I'll be honest. I'm not Walmart-ing advice to find people. You can't go in and expect Walmart to tell you where something is, but Canadian Tire, I've gone in and this guy followed. He's like, "I'm gonna walk with you to the aisle a hundred percent." And it makes a big difference of that kind of good customer service. And again, it's something I've loved at Stok'd, you guys have done very great customer service. Every time I go in I come learning something, but also getting a good product that was like recommended for me.

Michael:
A lot of times, like even on the podcast, we like to just talk about people's family, their history. If you wanna just talk about it for a second, what did your parents do for a living? What is the history there? And have they been supportive of you through this process? Or, my dad, he did construction. So he wasn't in this industry. When I tell him like, we sell products online, "Dad, we're shipping something across the world." he doesn't understand that. What did your parents do?

Francesco:
So my parents are very white collar. My dad, I think almost 45 years at Niagara College. Still putting in some time there. My mom was part of Niagara Park. She was one of the head managers down at like table rock there, but when she had my second brother, she called it quits and became a stay-at-home mom. So there's four of us. There's big family. Four siblings. Yeah. Well, three siblings. So two brothers and a younger sister.

Michael:
And even taking care of them.

Francesco:
Taking care of a family, you know, definitely put your toll on you. And being the oldest and my mom always called me Irv Weinstein growing up cause I had to know everything. So I was the curious kid that just, "What's going on? What's this, what's that?" So, you know where curiosity leads to.

Michael:
I'm the oldest too, actually. 

Francesco:
So a lot of weight comes on you. Right? Like, especially in a European family. They're still not for my job, to be honest. 

Michael:
Did you lie to them?

Francesco:
I love you mom and dad. But for a while they were obviously happy for me when I got the manager's job at Choom. I don't think they understood the trajectory of what that job, what it was about, what it was about to do for me. My dad definitely in a way supports for sure. They're not consumers. They hate the product. Trust me, they've cost me quite a bit of money back in the day.

Michael:
Trying to hide it.

Francesco:
Oh yeah, man. Coming home to a toilet full of my product.

Michael:
Pounds.

Francesco:
She waited for me to flush.

Michael:
We're throwing them under the bus.

Francesco:
But you know, they're very impressed with like what my fiance and I are doing with ourselves and in terms of personal growth and being that real helping hand to Lisa and Brian to build their company. So it's not like it's all for nothing. 

Michael:
They must see the success too. Do they? I used to run a water filter company, and now doing like an air filter company with Eco Four Twenty. It's funny to see. I had to lie for a couple of years and told my parents like, "I'm doing water filter still."It was only up to a point where we're getting into stores and they're seeing us ship out large amount that they're like, "These aren't water filters. Like, what are you opening? Like, let me see this package though."

Francesco:
I don't hide it anymore. Like even my grandparents know and stuff like that. It's just like, at the end of the day, it's who I am.

Michael:
But hat they kid can still love you and support you. That's awesome.

Francesco:
You've had to hide who, how long, who you were for, So how long, when it was illegal. So what was the point of legalization? If you can't wear your job with pride?

Michael:
And it's nice that your parents  can still be supportive.

Francesco:
In a certain way. Like, to this day, I'll still try to get them to try products with me, and maybe they will one day, but.

Michael:
Rub the cream on them from behind.

Francesco:
That's a lot. Trust me. There was one time, there was one time they almost ate the gummies, but I felt bad, so I stopped

Michael:
So Francesco, like what are the best ways people can connect with you and Stok'd?

Francesco:
Yeah, so I think our Twitter handle is @Stok'd. I'm more of an Instagram.

Michael:
I love Instagram. It, it's one of the ones you guys do the best on, too.

Francesco:
It's amazing. Yeah. Some very awesome people behind that. They do a kick ass job on the social media.

Michael:
Even you guys have a private group that you can join. Like I'm a member of it, I think, is it on Facebook?

Francesco:
Facebook. But yeah, it was a way to kind of just talk to people, but Facebook is kind of being a lost art in that sense. Even like just telling somebody about something has gotten our post removed and blocked. So we've kind of been dormant on that one. But if anyone has any kind of questions they can still ask directly through Facebook Messenger @imstoked on Instagram is probably one of the fastest ways to get ahold of us. And then imstoked@stoked.ca. You can always send an email to, and we respond within 24 hours. So it's it's all about the customer.

Michael:
And honestly, I highly recommend if anybody's in Toronto, anybody's in Scarborough check out Stok'd. They have a new location in Niagara Falls, which is awesome and now they have a new franchise. So I think that's so cool. I'm excited. We'll have you on again when you have your 20th franchise. I think that's really cool that this whole model of, not only is it you guys doing it, Lisa doing it, you know, this small business, but it's helping other small businesses grow. Like this franchise will become their own business kind of thing. And just like you would buy a Subway franchise, I'd rather buy a Stok'd franchise.

Francesco:
Yeah, no, yeah. I mean, you got your own dope house to do it. Who wouldn't want that? Right. So it's pretty cool. And I can appreciate the platform Lisa and Brian have given me. It's very admirable for, for them to be able to really entrust a lot of the business with me too. So, it's really cool to have partners like that where you don't look at them as bosses. You look at them as partners and that's awesome. It's equal. Big shout out to them too for, for giving me the platform to sell products across on Ontario.

Michael:
And we'll always hear more from Francesco and all of Stok'd and everybody. So thank you so much for being on the All Green podcast and we look forward to connecting more. 

Francesco:
Appreciate you, man. Thanks dude.